ABC This Week With George Stephanopoulos - Transcript

Interview

ABC This Week With George Stephanopoulos - Transcript

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News - "This Week with George Stephanopoulos." Now, reporting from the ABC News studios in Washington, George Stephanopoulos.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: In the headlines this morning, another suicide bombing in Jerusalem. The attackers struck a crowded bus during the morning rush hour, killing at least seven others, injuring more than 50 and scattering body parts over a wide area.

The al-Axa Martyrs Brigade claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was retaliation for the killing of 15 Palestinians by Israeli troops earlier this month.

In Afghanistan, a helicopter belonging to a U.S. construction company came under fire south of Khandahar. The pilot was killed and an American civilian was critically injured.

And in politics, a "Newsweek" poll out today has Senator John Kerry still holding a slim lead over President Bush. And for the first time, "Newsweek" has Senator John Edwards in a dead heat with Bush.

But in the Democratic primary fight, Kerry is still beating Edwards by more than 30 points, which brings us to our main event this morning. John Edwards and John Kerry, head-to-head. I met with each of them on the ABC bus to discuss their differences with President Bush and each other on the biggest issues of this race.

As we head towards Super Tuesday, we wanted to get a dialogue going on the big issues facing the voters and trade is at the top of the list. It's become very hot coming our of Wisconsin. Here's what President Bush had to say about it in his "State of the Union."

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: My administration is promoting free and fair trade to open up new markets for America's entrepreneurs and manufacturers and farmers to create jobs for American workers.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: His trade policy will create jobs. What's your response?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Dead wrong. He's got have of it right. He's promoting free trade, he's not promoting fair trade. And we've seen how devastating these trade agreements that this administration is promoting have been to the loss of jobs. I've seen it personally, George. I know what the impact of trade is. I saw it at Tower Automotive in Milwaukee last week when I met with workers who are about to lose their jobs. And the looks on their faces were looks I have seen before. I've seen it in North Carolina when mills closed. I saw it on the faces of people in the mill that my father worked in in my own hometown, closed. I mean, this is something I take very personally and the president is dead wrong.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: President Bush is promoting the outsourcing of American jobs and I don't think he's stood up and fought for the American worker. His trade, it may be free, but it's not fair. And what's happening is the American worker is seeing incredible outsourcing of jobs without the creation here at home.

Here's what I'll do. Number one, I will close the loopholes, the rewards that actually give an incentive, George, to companies to take jobs overseas.

Number two, I will put labor and environment standards on the table as part of each of our trade arrangements. We almost got them in NAFTA, we can get them in today's world.

Thirdly, I will put a manufacturing job benefit, a job tax credit on the table, together with about 50 billion dollars of assistance to states in order to be able to create jobs at a much more rapid pace in this country.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How about the issue of trade? Senator Edwards has tried to draw a sharp distinction there between your record and his. He says he was against NAFTA, he was against fast- track, he was against a whole parcel of free trade agreements that you were for.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, Senator Edwards is trying hard to draw a distinction there, I know. But he wasn't in the United States Senate when we argued over NAFTA. If he's going to blame me for NAFTA, then I hope he's going to give me credit for the single vote passage of a Deficit Reduction Act that created 23 million jobs and we balanced the budget just about the time John Edwards came to the Senate in 1999. I hope he'll give me credit for that, too.

I think today our trade policies are exactly the same. Both of us want to have labor and environment standards, both of us think we need to fight for the American worker.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Well, here's my response to that. Senator Kerry had a legitimate position. It's just different than mine. And we have a very different record on this issue. I voted against the Chilean trade agreement. I voted against the Singapore trade agreement. I voted against final fast-track authority for this president. I voted against the African trade agreement. I voted against the Caribbean trade agreement. Senator Kerry voted for all of those.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You both voted for China.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: We both voted for China. That's correct. But Senator Kerry voted for all those trade agreements. And I did oppose NAFTA when I was running for the Senate back in 1998 because I saw the devastation it had created. We have very different records when it comes to trade. And my position on this is driven by my own personal experience. I have seen the effect it's had on families and on communities.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Unless you act, Americans face a tax increase. What Congress has given, the Congress should not take away. For the sake of job growth, the tax cuts you passed should be permanent. [Cheers and applause]

SEN. JOHN KERRY: The president has played games with taxes at the expense of America's interests, of our fiscal responsibility. He's played games with taxes in order to try to polarize people and not tell Americans the truth about where we find ourselves.

His is an irresponsible fiscal policy, an irresponsible tax plan for America. He's driven us into 521 billion dollars of deficit this year. Endless deficits, from surpluses as far as the eye can see, to deficits as far as the eye can see.

Americans are paying the price for that and will pay an even higher price down the road.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And he says you're --

SEN. JOHN KERRY: And when he says -- when he says that Americans face a tax increase, once again, he is not telling Americans the truth. Only the wealthiest Americans will have any possibility of an increase under my proposal and it's not really an increase, it's rolling it back to the place where it was when he became president. And he's rushed that tax cut through in order to be able to say to people, "oh, they're raising your taxes." All I want to do is go back to where we were when he started. And only with respect to the people earning more than $200,000 a year. I will protect the middle class.

I will not raise taxes on families that have gotten an increase in the child tax credit. I won't change that. He's not telling the truth when he says that. I will not reinstate the marriage penalty. He's not telling the truth again when he says that. I will not take away the ten percent bracket. He's not telling the truth again when he says that.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: The middle class is the engine of this economy. We do need to strengthen those families. But what the president is talking about are tax cuts that go to people who make over $200,000 a year, people who don't need a tax cut, driving us deeper and deeper into deficit, and that's the dividing line between George Bush and John Edwards.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Both you and Senator Kerry have that position, you repeal the tax cuts for people who are earning over $200,000 a year. But you know what the Republican Party is going to do. They're going to come out and say, "There they go again. Democrats are raising taxes." How does John Edwards fight back?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Very simply. I'm fighting for the people I've thought for all my life, George. Middle class families, the kind of family that I grew up in. People who live in poverty and lifting them out of poverty. I'm not -- if you are listening to the sound of my voice and you earn less than $200,000 a year, your tax -- you will get a bigger tax break under an Edwards administration than you're presently getting under a Bush administration.

His tax cuts, the people that he's helping with his tax cuts, are people who earn a great deal more money. And I -- and if I can just add to that. There is -- this is a place where there are also at least some differences between Senator Kerry and myself. In fairness to him, he talks about the middle class. He does want to keep the middle class tax cuts in place. We agree on that. But I've laid out a very comprehensive set of ideas about how we go further. How we match what people are able to say. How we create incentives for people to invest. How we give tax credits to families who can't buy a home. Specific ideas about cracking down on predatory lenders, payday lenders, credit card companies that are preying on these very same families.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, he would expand the child-care tax credit, but you're saying these ideas you just laid out are even better.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: They're all different. And they go beyond what Senator Kerry -- what I've heard Senator Kerry talk about.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, saying it doesn't make it so, George. That's just not so. Also, John Edwards, I noticed, voted to give life to George Bush's tax cut because he voted for the first round of that tax cut. I did not. I always thought it was a pig in the poke.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Voted against the final passage.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: He voted against final passage, but he gave it life by sending it to the Republican House and the Republican House -- no one has ever had confidence in what the Republican House will do.

I think that -- my middle class package is a very powerful package that will help the middle class of America. And here's what I do. Number one, I provide a $4,000 tuition tax credit. John, I think, only provides help in the first one or two years of college. I provide it for all four years.

Secondly, I will provide an increase in the child care credit, so parents can get after-school programs to help their children be able to advance their education.

Thirdly, I provide a health care reduction of almost a thousand dollars per individual, which goes mostly to the middle class and will help businesses be more competitive. No one else in this presidential field has matched the reduction in the cost of health care that I provide at a very low cost overall to the American people. And it's affordable within the money that I get back from rolling back George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest Americans.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Another big jobs issue has come up in the last couple of weeks. The issue of outsourcing. The Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors for President Bush got into a lot of trouble when he said that outsourcing is a plus for the American economy. But when you look at the issue, what can you do about it?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: This is a very complicated issue. It's caused by a whole group of things. One is -- the thing that actually concerns me the most is that I worry that we're starting to lose our edge in science, math and technology. China graduated about half a million engineers last year. We graduated 60,000-65,000. And since we're going to have the standard of living we have in this country -- in fact, we want to improve it, not make it worse. We always -- it's going to be critical for the American worker to be more productive than other workers around the world.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: With training and education.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: With training, education. We need better and stronger science and math curriculums, particularly in our early grades. We need to strengthen our graduate programs in this area. The other thing where we can have a real impact is we ought to build broadband, high-speed internet out in every community over the next four years. Because there are lots of parts of America where it's easier for these companies to do business in India or China because they have that access. And they don't have that access in rural communities in a lot of America.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Edwards says the most important thing to do is improve math and science education. Do you agree with that?

SEN. JOHN KERRY: It's one of the most important things to do. If you don't give the American worker a fair playing field to compete on, We're going to continue to be disadvantaged. Let me give you an example. China manipulated currency. China does not enforce intellectual property laws. China and other countries have not allowed us to have fair access to the marketplace.

Airbus played extraordinary games with Boeing. Boeing workers have lost an enormous number of jobs because they've been competing on an unfair playing field. We've always known that education is the key. Education -- I mean, that's not new. Education was the centerpiece of Bill Clinton's presidency. It's the centerpiece of my proposals. There are a whole series of things we can do. The Bush administration has provided about 120 million dollars now for job training and they say "aren't we terrific for doing this?" What they don't tell you is they cut a billion dollars of job training over the last three years.

So, yes, the most important thing is a combination of fair playing field, close the loopholes, education, and create jobs here at home.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: By keeping costs under control, expanding access, and helping more Americans afford coverage, we will preserve the system of private medicine that makes America's health care the best in the world.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Heavy implication there.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: What in the world is he talking about? I mean, he needs to go out and spend at least a couple of days in the real world. You know? If you're out there living like I am in the real world, having town hall meetings -- our health care system is in crisis in this country. And this prescription drug bill that he's referring to right now is the biggest giveaway to HMOs and drug companies that we've seen in a long time. The administration opposed every provision that would have brought down the cost of prescription drugs for seniors, allowing reimportation from Canada, using the power of the government to negotiate a better price, doing something about drug company advertising on television. Every single one of those things would have not only helped seniors, but would have brought down the cost of prescription drugs for all Americans.

They opposed them all and the reason is because they're like this, they're married to the drug industry. I mean, we actually have to have a president who will stand up to these people. We have a health care system in crisis.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: George Bush is going to have a problem with me. Because what he just talked about is only true in that we have the best health care in the world. We do. It's a magnificent health care system. But it's also seeing the costs rise every single year for business, and for individual alike.

His plan does nothing to lower costs. His plan is only available to people who have the ability to save some money. If you can't save some money, you can't afford George Bush's health care plan.

My health care plan is not a government-run plan. There's no new bureaucracy. I create market incentives that actually make it attractive for business people to reduce costs. They can choose. I'm not going to force them. But it's so attractive to them. I haven't met one CEO in this country who hasn't said to me, "boy, if you'll do that, which is take the catastrophic cases off the backs of business and pay for it out of the federal fund that I create with George Bush's tax cut rolled back, we will reduce the cost of health care by $1,000 per person. We'll reduce the cost of health care for businesses that have to chip in. It'll make them more competitive. We'll start to get control of health care costs in America.

We have an incentive for technology in the system. We have an incentive for quality care in the system. I even have a tort reform recommendation in the system.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There does seem to be a significant difference between you and Senator Kerry on this issue. Your plan would cost about 53 billion dollars and cover a little more than half of the uninsured right now.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: That's right. That's right.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He would spend about 72 billion dollars. He says it would cover 96% of the uninsured right now. What do you say to Democrats who are attracted to that more ambitious approach?

SEN. JOHN KERRY: I would say two things. Based on the objective studies that I've seen, my plan covers 21 million, approximately. His covers 27 million, if I remember the numbers correctly. It's in the high twenties, I remember that much. So there is some difference between us. But his cost is dramatically higher than mine. And, not only that, I think this is part of our health care problem, which -- and by the way, I cover every single child, which Senator Kerry does not do. I mandate coverage, and that's, of course, the issue in my plan that people will challenge. But I think we need to cover every single child. We need to treat it like public education.

But my plan is affordable and doable. We will be able to attack the support we need to get my plan actually done so we don't spend 15 or 20 years debating this issue.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But why isn't Senator Kerry's plan doable? He says he would allow everyone to buy into the same kind of health care coverage that members of Congress and senators have.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Why is it not doable? It's a cost issue. I mean, at what point does the cost become so high that you can't get it done in today's environment. I mean, we're in a deficit environment. We're going deeper and deeper into deficit under this president. When we take the White House, and I believe I will, about a year from now, we're going to inherit a huge deficit. So what is achievable in that environment? And will we do health care only at the expense of everything else that needs to be done in this country?

I mean, we need to strengthen the middle class. We need to help those folks. We need to do something about our public school system. We need to do something about kids who want to go to college and don't have a chance to go. You can't just choose one thing and say we're going to put all our eggs in that basket.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, he's wrong. He's dead wrong. And in fact, the same people who've helped me formulate my health care plan are many of the people who helped formulate the Clinton budget in the 1990s. And we've crunched those numbers. We've been very careful about this. We've done this because if I won the nomination, I wanted it to withstand the scrutiny of you and others in the press. So these numbers have been carefully put together by people like Gene Sperling and Roger Altman and Bob Reich, all people who were involved with the Clinton administration.

And we've been careful to look at the health care plan so that it fits within the numbers that you get as you push back and roll back the Bush tax cut for the wealthiest Americans. Now, is my plan slightly more expensive than John Edwards'? The answer is "yes," it is. But, what he doesn't look at is that that's where I get the middle class break again. I give a thousand dollar reduction in the premiums to the average person out there who today, every time they bargain at the table for an increase in wages, those wages are being turned over to the health care companies.

I'm going to allow the average American middle class to put money in their pockets, finally. And do better by working harder, which is not what you can do under the Bush administration. It's what happened under Clinton. And I'll tell you, if you liked the first eight years or the eight years of Bill Clinton, you're going to like the first four years of John Kerry.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That was the domestic policy debate. When we come back, national security.

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(Commercial Break)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're back with more from the Democratic front-runners. John Kerry and John Edwards square off with President Bush and each other on the issue of Iraq.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH [from "State of the Union" speech]: Some critics have said our duties in Iraq must be internationalized. There is a difference, however, between leading a coalition of many nations and submitting to the objections of a few. America will never seek a permission clip to defend the security of our country. [Cheers and applause]

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: A shot right across your bow.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, no it isn't a shot across my bow. What he does is he states the obvious, which we all agree with, and then uses some other rhetoric and hides the reality. The obvious is, of course, America will never seek a permission slip. I would never seek a permission slip from another country. If I were president of the United States, I will never cede the security of the United States of America to any other nation or to any institution. And that's not what I or anyone who has suggested respecting the U.N. process has ever talked about.

I'll take whatever action, no one will be tougher in fighting the war on terror than I will. But I'll do it in a more effective and more respectful way than George Bush has by bringing allies to our side. By not rushing to war in a way that has over-extended the armed forces of the United States, cost us billions of dollars because we weren't willing to be patient to bring other people to share the burden.

And what's astonishing about the president's policy, George, is that the Europeans have a fundamental interest in not having a failed Iraq on their doorstep. The Arab states have a fundamental interest in not having a failed Iraq as their neighbor. And notwithstanding that fundamental interest, the president has barely brought them sufficiently to the table.

And no one can tell me that our troops are safer today because we're there alone. No one can tell me the American taxpayer is better off today because this president rushed to war without our allies helping us. And I believe there was a better way to do this, there was a right way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. There was a wrong way - the president chose the wrong way.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: It shows a level of arrogance that's amazing about how we deal with the rest of the world. I mean, we obviously led in this war in Iraq. The question now is are we going to work with the international community to have this effort be successful? Are we going to create a foothold for at least a pluralistic government and hopefully a democracy down the road? Are we going to be willing to relinquish some authority and give decision-making authority, a seat at the table to the international institutions and to our friends and allies who we need to have involved?

That is the crux of the problem with the president's approach. I mean, he claims this is an international effort. It's not. This is almost entirely an American effort, with some help from the British. And we're not going to get these other countries involved unless we actually give them decision-making authority.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet, as you know, he had a list of seventeen or more countries in the State of the Union, and lately it seems like the United States, the Bush administration, is doing more to get the U.N. involved in at least administering elections. When Ambassador Bremer was on our show just the other week, he said "let's hear what the U.N. has to say." Clearly, the United States is ceding more control.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Well, he's being dragged kicking and screaming to something that should have been done a long time ago and he's not taking the steps that need to be done.

We have -- for multiple reasons, this effort needs to be internationalized. We need to relieve some of the burden on our troops and on American taxpayers.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Both you and Senator Kerry voted for the resolution authorizing force in Iraq and voted against appropriating 87 billion dollars for the reconstruction. Are there any differences between you two on Iraq right now?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: I don't see a big difference between us on this issue. Now, I only heard what he said mostly in debates and some of the things he's said in his speeches. It appears that we have a similar approach to this.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, I think he would like to be that way, but I think I have 35 years of experience in international security, foreign policy, and military affairs and I think that makes an enormous difference here. I think that the world is looking for leadership that is tested and sure. And I think that George Bush has proven that this is not a time for inexperience in the White House, it's not a time to find your way. It is also not a time to have to rely on advisors exclusively. It's a time to know through experience and through your own gut exactly how to make America safer and I think I do.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I know that some people question if America is really in a war at all. They view terrorism more as a crime, a problem to be solved mainly with law enforcement and indictments. After the chaos and carnage of September 11th, it is not enough to serve our enemies with legal papers.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you fall into the category he's talking about there?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: Absolutely no. No, I have felt and believed very strongly that this war on terrorism is very important. I mean --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But it's a "war"?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: It is a war. On terrorism. Of course it is. And we were attacked on September 11th. We were attacked on our own soil. But how we respond and what we do is the real issue.

Let me just give you a simple example of how I believe the president's out-of-touch with what's happening out here in the real world. If you go into most communities, as I have in many places around the country, and you ask "tell me what you would do today different than what you would have done on September 11th if you found out in the middle of the night that a terrorist attack had occurred in your community?" In the vast majority of communities in this country, people have no idea what they're supposed to do. They don't have a clue, which means, we don't have the kind of comprehensive warning system in place. Suppose an attack occurred at 3 AM, how would most people find out if they don't have their television or their radios on? We don't have a comprehensive response system in place.

I mean, we've not done the things that need to be done to make sure that chemical plants and nuclear plants, some of our most vulnerable targets, are in fact protected. There are a whole group of things, George, that need to be done to keep the American people safe and secure from terrorism that this president, this administration, is not doing.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's all civil defense. But the president's point there was that this is primarily a military operation. Senator Kerry has said, for example, that he thinks it's primarily an intelligence and law enforcement operation. Which side to you come down on?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: I don't think of it in that kind of dichotomy. What I think about is what do we need to do here at home to keep the American people safe? I've just talked about some of those things. And what do we need to do abroad? You know that I've served for several years on the Senate Intelligence Committee and if you look at a map, a world map of what these terrorist cells are operating, it's absolutely critical that America have the kind of working relationships with the international community that allows us to get at these terrorist cells where they're operating, the place of origin out of which they're operating.

That's the reason that it is true that it's a war. Because we have to go get these terrorist cells and these terrorist organizations where they operate, before they get to us. Because of the way we live, we are incredibly vulnerable.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How far does that extend? If you talk about going on offense, does it extend to pre-empting a possible Iranian nuclear program? Pre-empting a possible North Korean nuclear program?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: First of all, I'd never take any of those options off the table. The question is what is the threat, what is the seriousness of the threat? And you have to evaluate that at the time.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So you wouldn't completely scrap the pre- emption doctrine?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: I would scrap the pre-emption doctrine? We don't need a pre-emption doctrine. I never believed we needed a pre- emption doctrine. The president of the United States can do whatever needs to be done to keep the American people safe.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: It is not enough to serve our enemies with legal papers.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, I agree with that. I mean, that's again stating the obvious.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But you did say in South Carolina that the war on terror is primarily a law enforcement and intelligence operation.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Well, primarily means primarily. It is, primarily. If you don't know who they are, where they are, and what they're planning, you can't go get them before they get you. And that's exactly what we need to do. Obviously, our intelligence failed in Iraq.

I believe that we could have done a better job at Tora Bora in Afghanistan. I think that intelligence is critical, George, to knowing sort of -- what your target it. Once you know that your target is, I'm prepared to use any combination of military forces necessary to take them out and protect the United States of America.

But I know this from experience. If you don't know accurately, so where are you going and who's planning to do what to you and you don't do it at the earliest possible moment, i.e., where they're plotting it over there rather than here, we're not going to protect America adequately.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So then you would have --

SEN. JOHN KERRY: I think we can do a better job of doing that than this administration has done.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You would have your own doctrine of pre- emption then?

SEN. JOHN KERRY: George, every president, from the beginning of time, has had a sufficient doctrine of pre-emption. Throughout the Cold War, the entire first strike doctrine was based on a doctrine of pre-emption. But that's very different from the Bush doctrine of pre- emption. I don't subscribe to the George Bush doctrine as he has described it, which is very different. It's a pre-emptive war for the purpose of removing -- simply removing a dictator.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The president hasn't mentioned your name yet, that I've seen. But his surrogates haven't been shy about it and they say they're going to go through your 19-year record, look at this record of voting for cuts in defense, cuts in intelligence, cuts in the FBI and try to disqualify you on the issue of national security. Do you think that your record makes you a more inviting target than Senator Edwards?

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Not in the least. Let them try to do that. I have voted for the largest defense budgets in the history of our country. I have voted for most of the systems that we are building today in the United States. Some people would fault me for that, in fact.

I have voted for large intelligence budgets -- in fact, for the largest budgets that we have. But I also fought for common sense in how we approach some of these things. I think the American people want common sense. And they're not going to listen to this same old stuff from these people who throw labels around and try to dig in. They're going to listen to what we can do to make America stronger and safer and there are many ways in which I've done that over my 20-year career. I will stand by my record. I'm willing to take them on anywhere, at any time.

And you know, it's curious to me, George, how angry they get and how -- sort of, they throw patriotism around and so forth. I don't know what it is that all these Republicans who didn't serve in Vietnam or fight in a war have against those of us who did. And I look forward to having a great debate with them about how you make America secure.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, what's the one argument you want to leave voters with on why they should choose you over Senator Kerry?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: That I'm somebody who comes from outside Washington, that I can bring the changes to this country that need to be made in order for this country to work for everybody, instead of a privileged few, that I come from the same kind of background that most of them come from. I understand their lives. I know what their lives are like. And I will wake up everyday in the White House fighting for them, fighting for their jobs, fighting for their health care, because for me, this is personal.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: I think it you look at my record of 35 years of fighting, I've walked a different path from a lot of people in Washington. I have been one of the strongest advocates of campaign finance reform. I've lived by a different standard of how I've raised my own money because I'm the only person elected four times in the Senate without ever voluntarily, without ever taking one dime of PAC money in any of my Senate races. I refuse to take that special interest money.

So I think that what I bring to this race is 35 years of proven, consistent fighting for average folks in this country to get ahead and 35 years of experience in national security, foreign affairs, and military affairs and I think we need an experienced hand at the helm of state today.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You saw from that that as far as Senator Kerry is concerned, the debate over Vietnam is not quite over. He followed up on our interview by releasing a letter to President Bush late last night, challenging the president to a one-on-one debate on the war and what it meant for both men.

We'll find out what George Will thinks about all this when we come back.

(Commercial Break)

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